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Peter Guy discovered music late. Since then he's been making up for it. With a collection to rival a small record shop and a gig diary fit for any addled groupie, music is is his religion. Sometimes he dreams of having Liam, Prince and Jimmy Page round for tea but most of the time he can be found writing and designing the Daily Post's sports pages. Getintothis is his guide to music, which he hopes you’ll contribute to.

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What ever happened to my rock & roll?

Posted by Peter Guy on July 11, 2007 10:07 AM | 


Harry Brooks had no option than to love music. From an early age, the sounds of The Beatles, The Byrds, Neil Young and James Taylor have filled his ears, until he hit 12 and started to delve a bit deeper into the joys of music. He can be found playing in various bands around the city including Saturator, but would happily sacrifice every one of his records to see Everton win the league again. For Getintothis he wonders where all the rock & roll stars have gone...

Sat in a pub beer garden at the weekend enjoying the sun and a selection of Eastern Europe's finest light ales (as well as sundry nuts and crisps), the conversation turned to music.
A few members of the party, myself included, have played in beat-pop combos regularly, and have speculated about what it would be like to live the dream, and sign that elusive record deal.
One of the chaps isn't a musician, and started to prattle on about living the fabled 'rock n' roll lifestyle' of Keith Moon, John Bonham and Cliff Richards (really, absolute hell raiser was Sir Cliff). Which set me to thinking - what has happened to those rock and roll rebels who live life with a different set of rules to us mere mortals, but at the same time were cool and had the music to back it up? Is anyone truly rock and roll anymore? petenkate.jpg
For instance, bands such as Keane, Coldplay and Travis get lumped into the list of rock bands these days - however, my Grandad is more rock and roll than these, and he's been dead for five years. Keane take blandness to whole new levels – even Tom Chaplin’s recent stay in rehab seemed more like a PR invention to keep them in the news and up their rock quota.
Even somebody like Pete Doherty (right) - celebrity girlfriend, drink, drugs, reviled by the media - is only playing at living the lifestyle, and certainly hasn't got the music to back it up, so for me can't be classed as rock and roll. And if there is one thing he isn't, it is cool. Liam Gallagher did it for one album, but now just comes across as the bell-end he always was.
Iggy Pop is still out there, doing it as though it was still 1969; on stage, he looks as though he were built solely for that purpose. It’s just him - no posing, no attitude, nothing contrived. For him, it’s the entire embodiment of his being. Just look at his Glastonbury performance, getting the crowd up on stage, telling the stewards to go f*ck themselves, then falling over because of the mud that had been left on stage. Absolutely ace, and I’m not even a fan of either him or The Stooges. Compare that to, for instance, My Chemical Romance (insert name of any other punk rock wannabe).
The Who played two festivals last month - Glastonbury and Knowsley (which is an article in itself), and blew away every other band on show - more energy, cooler, better songs, and a history of self-destruction (well, certainly in Pete’s case) that puts others to shame.
The View, the so called saviours of rock (©NME) suggest wearing the same kecks for a few days as living life on the edge. I truly despair.
The cool, rock and roll element doesn't just mean self destruction though. Take Frank Zappa - no drugs, huge work ethic, and a cool that just can't be bought.
I can't think of anybody in modern music that I really desire or aspire to be. I watch DVD's of the Who, Zeppelin, The Doors, The Byrds (pictured left) and I want to be those people, they have that indefinable element that added to the fact they made such great music. I'd carry on with the daily 9-5 than swap places with any current musician.
Take Towers of London. They try so hard to live up to the idea of rock & roll, that they end up being a cliché of that very idea. Plus they are possibly the worst band this side of The Twang.
So, is the well of real rock-stars all dried up? Are we going to have to make do with the watered down, PG-rated version from now on? For the sake of rock and roll, we really need a saviour.

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Comments (36)

Sid Vicious wrote...

It's just rock'n'roll.

Posted by: Sid Vicious  | July 11, 2007 3:58 PM

Mad Badger wrote...

What ya gonna do? Rock n Roll is in its 6th decade. All we are faced with today is regurgitation of riffs and recycling of ideas and themes. The only band out there that are actually exciting me at the moment is The Cold War Kids and they're Christian Fundies (for God's sake!)

Rock bands and stars have PR agents and lawyers and minders and whole entourages of advisors and accountants. Those who have survived from the heady days of the 60s and 70s are here because they cleaned up their act and got healthy (Tyler, Bowie, Daltry, Pop etc). They're grandparents for feck sake!

The likes of Johnny Thunders, Moon, Morrisson et al may have been Rock n Roll, but they're dead.

Rock has become sanitised and hemmed in by the moral majority and cleaner airwaves.

It may not be progress but it's just the way it is.

Posted by:  Mad Badger  | July 11, 2007 4:25 PM

Stephen Kenny wrote...

If it's rock n roll you want, get down to the cavern on thursday and see excellent Liverpool band, The Dirty Rotten Bastards live on stage.

Posted by: Stephen Kenny  | July 11, 2007 4:26 PM

Keith Moon's Drumstick wrote...

People like Keith Moon behaved like lunatics and drank until it seeped out of their noses simply because they were born that way.
There was no staged PR behind it, no outrageous behaviour in the hope that it might get a mention in a tabloid rag, no big ego trip.
Dead pioneers like Moon, Hendrix, Brian Jones and Jim Morrison had a right to act out their short lives in a glamorously decadent fashion - playing a part in shaping modern day rock and roll gave them that right.
Some, like Townshend, Dylan, Bowie and Brian Wilson, backed up with a gift to write unforgettably brilliant music, took their lives to the edge of the cliff before stepping back, to thankfully prolong their (now sober) lives into middle age and beyond.
How they must sneer at the likes of the multi talentless Donny Tourettes (are him and his shit band still around anyway?) and the simpering dough eyed crackpipe bore dougherty.
I can only think of one true great rock and roll star of the last 20 years - Jason Pierce. Spent a month living off nothing but chicken soup, ale and drugs whilst writing some of the finest music of the 90s. Top lad.
So, to all of you latter day peddlers of rubbish - the kooks, the view, maroon 5 (god, how i hate them), please leave by the nearest exit. None of you are worthy.

Posted by: Keith Moon's Drumstick  | July 11, 2007 4:26 PM

Gaz wrote...

Pete Doherty is a legend and The View are ace. You can keep your Keith Moon's the Libs re-wrote the rulebook.

Posted by: Gaz  | July 11, 2007 4:57 PM

Wooz wrote...

Donny is a complete joke

Posted by: Wooz  | July 11, 2007 5:09 PM

Towen wrote...

the Libs rewrote the rule book? which rules did they rewrite? that bit about dougherty being a legend caused me to laugh out loud.


great work Gaz!

Posted by: Towen  | July 11, 2007 5:54 PM

Gaz wrote...

It's true. Time for Heroes, Don't Look Back Into The Sun, Can't Stand Me Now, the list is endless of classics the LIbs wrote, and they ripped it up along the way. Docherty has changed modern music for the better. He's a genius.

Who's done it better than him.

Posted by: Gaz  | July 11, 2007 5:59 PM

Whillam wrote...

Hopefully not to be seen as using this as a chance for shameless self-promotion -truly- but well, I've been trying! Been at it for well over a decade with little true success (yet)... and still chipping away at the next project... and not at all to compare myself to the greats, but I lived a fairly decadent lifestyle too in my early twenties with a couple
bands; it came quite naturally with the time and place you could say... whatever, though... I grew up.

Now in my late twenties I am definitely a cleaner type but no less impassioned about certain things and still believe and hopefully perform in the spirit of real rock and roll. I do think I am making sounds which stick to that ideal in a lot of ways, with a few twists of my own. Most of the bands and artists around today JUST AREN'T IT, though. AT ALL.

The closest I can think of on the big stage is still Prince even with his mostly r & b sound. Because he mostly still doesn't seem to give a **** about much else but the music!

People will latch on to Wolfmother or god knows what and other laughable comparisons (in this country at least) but really they're all watered down amalgamations of truly great 70s bands, in my opinion. In the mainstream, The White Stripes and suchlike have made some good records to be sure, but the highly rigged state of the industry nowadays certainly makes it difficult to be different and successful AT being different, I think. A Bob Dylan might have a hard time getting signed nowadays.

And the punk ethic is certainly having to evolve. A certain grit that only real rock music has must often be made palatable and specially designed for the instantly gratified MySpace generation, it seems.

But I still maintain a hope there's a place for real artists amongst this... even if it's acknowledging that the "best don't always win" in the music industry. At least with the internet there is now more of a CHANCE to have a wider audience but often the problem there is that MEDIOCRITY is often more of the norm as a result and artists suffer with mass pirating and ironically the marketing muscle of the majors dominates perhaps even more now than ever.

It's truly a stifling environment for new, interesting music to find ground in and grow. However, the more things change, the more they stay the same, at least I hope so... there will be and are surges in many avenues and it will open and close up in waves as usual... but perhaps the problem lies in too much choice, at times? I mostly agree that we're in quite a lull right now in many regards.

Real rock and roll was always about "the people" appreciating some sort of usually hard to find band or scene and kindred sense of abandon and if the people don't consciously reject the in-your-face, yet pleasant information overload that bears more resemblance to a commercial jingle than the spirit of "real" music like Led Zeppelin, Zappa or The Beatles, ..well it's just harder for true artists to evolve and feel connected to those people and for scenes to form and be appreciated.

Until underground artists and movements are encouraged by communities and commercialism is at the same time ignored by a significant number, it seems like we'll simply continue to be asked to consume what we're offered. That's what I feel as I write this, anyway.

Posted by: Whillam  | July 11, 2007 6:10 PM

Mad Badger wrote...

Erm Gaz...you'll find the list is actually two albums long. So, not as endless as you would like to believe.

The Libertines were exciting. They brought about a new sensibility to the music scene but at the end of the day, I think you'll find they are just the uppity grandkids of The Kinks, 13th Floor Elevators and bands of the same ilk.

There was nothing new there. Just a set of fresh faces in retro leather jackets.

I liked them. Don't get me wrong but, all been done before and somewhat better.

Badge

Posted by: Mad Badger  | July 11, 2007 6:24 PM

Gaz wrote...

The point is, is that people are sayin there's no new rock stars to believe in - wel I reckon Pete and Carl are two ace rock stars. I don't care about what you've seen Badger - I wasn't around when you were getting off your tits to the Lifts.
The Libs are a genuine great band and rock n roll isn't dead.

Posted by: Gaz  | July 11, 2007 6:40 PM

Mad Badger wrote...

Jesus! That's me told. I'm off to get Pete and Carl's faces tattooed on each buttock in case Gaz goes all doolally on me!

Badge

Posted by: Mad Badger  | July 11, 2007 6:54 PM

Gaz wrote...

I'm not suggesting you get a tat, although I have a boss one of Carl's face on me back and Pete/Libertine's forever on my arm, I just rekon you should open your mind to how much there is on offer to people these days instead of bleating on about bands of the past who are frankly not intheir league, Badge.

Posted by: Gaz  | July 11, 2007 7:07 PM

Bootho wrote...

Jim Morrison and the martyrs encapsulate rock n' roll, everyone else is daddy rock. I get the picture, its a familiar one, neatly packaged on the front cover of Mojo every month.

You smash a guitar, offend a few sensibilities and immortality is assured. "They lived by their own rules!" Yeh right. If Bonham lived by his own rules, he wouldn't have died in his prime, drowned in a pool of his own vomit. Trust me on that one.

As far as I'm concerned, someone like Brian Eno encapsultes the spirit of rock n' roll more than any of your gods, and if he rates Coldplay high enough to work with them, then thats good enough for me.

Its clear that people who are religious about their music are always crying out for the next martyr to deify in readiness for their yawnsome communion. Well, you can drink the blood of Ian Curtis and worship at the altar of Hendrix all you like. Chris Martin & Co made a cracking album while you lot were on your knees!

Posted by: Bootho  | July 11, 2007 11:00 PM

Fred's Jumper wrote...

Bootho: How on earth can you compare Eno and Coldplay to Hendrix and Curtis.

I respect Eno, not that I like his music, but Coldplay over Joy Division and Hendrix, you're surely batting for the wrong side?

Posted by: Fred's Jumper  | July 12, 2007 1:56 AM

Ste Rimmer wrote...

Coldplay, rock n roll? Whatever.

Posted by: Ste Rimmer  | July 12, 2007 2:16 AM

Christ Martin wrote...

As far as I'm concerned, someone like Brian Eno encapsultes the spirit of rock n' roll more than any of your gods, and if he rates Coldplay high enough to work with them, then thats good enough for me.

Its clear that people who are religious about their music are always crying out for the next martyr to deify in readiness for their yawnsome communion.

Well, you can drink the blood of Ian Curtis and worship at the altar of Hendrix all you like. Chris Martin & Co made a cracking album while you lot were on your knees!


Christ almight.. kill yourself now. there is no hope..

FFS John Lennon dead, yet people like you alive and well.

Who does decide this sh*t is what I wanna know!

Posted by: Christ Martin  | July 12, 2007 10:13 AM

Towen wrote...

Gaz, you've just caused me to bring up a bit of sick in my mouth.
Are you really deluded enough to suggest that a simpering little turd like dougherty has done enough to qualify as a rock and roll genius?
He'll never be anything of the sort. As for bands of the past not being in the Libertines' league. Is that a camel's back i can hear breaking in the background?

Posted by: Towen  | July 12, 2007 10:56 AM

Bob wrote...

Oh get over yourselves. Listen to the music if you like it, turn it off if you don't.

Posted by: Bob  | July 12, 2007 12:59 PM

Mad Badger wrote...

Gaz!

Here's a thing for ya. I do listen but apaprently you don't.

I feel I have given the Libs and for that matter DPT the praise I feel they deserve. As a matter of fact, when me and me lovely woman get married next year she is having Canon in D as she walks up the aisle and as we walk down I have insisted on F*ck Forever (I sh*t you not!). So don't tell me I dont have time for The Libertines or the spinoffs. I do.

I just found your appraisal of them a bit too much but if that's what they mean to you...fair fecks to ya. I envy ya cos its been years since I have been excited by Rock music - apart from Cold War Kids recently.

Personally, I do not think they have done enough or lasted long enough to warrant them classed as a classic Rock 'n' Roll band.

They're cute.

Posted by: Mad Badger  | July 12, 2007 2:00 PM

TwoL'sOneCock wrote...

The whole notion of 'being' rock n roll in the classic sense is surely pretty much redundant today.

Bands like The View or whoever might be young, free-living hedonists who aren't keen on washing and get banned from Travelodges, but they're about as exciting as a pine desk.

Kasabian selling out multiple nights at Ally Pally doesn't make em rock n roll. The Enemy or The Twang moaning about being a 'slave to the wage' isn't rock n roll, or inspiring, in any conceivable way.

Yeah, you can be rock n roll in an unknown, underground band playing to 4 people. Hell, I could even be rock n roll in my spare room right now (oo er), but I'm changing nothing. By the same token can you be rock n roll while selling a million records?

Surely the closest thing we now have to rebel mentality (in the mainstream) is a band like Arctic Monkeys, who seem to use the system as and when it suits them, to maximum effect and success.

Complete musical integrity embodies the spirit of rock n roll to an extent, but then even vaguely more musically challenging bands like the White Stripes, Gallows, and even Radiohead (much as I like all three) are packaged up, marketed and sold to kids in the same way as trainers, mobiles or whatever.

The modern idea of being rock n roll is about as valid as having a 'cool' list in the NME.

Posted by: TwoL'sOneCock  | July 12, 2007 2:23 PM

Mark wrote...

Rock and Roll is something your born with.

You don't need to show it off, or hype it up. It's how you feel. It's how you are 24/7. It's how you dream.

Get your asses down to Academy 3 in Manchester on the 17th August.

www.myspace.com/thegekko

Posted by: Mark  | July 12, 2007 3:40 PM

Gaz wrote...

Badger mate, you're really talking rubbish, how can they be cute?

Towen you obviously wouldn't know a decent band if it clocked you on the nose.

Albion Forever!

Posted by: Gaz  | July 13, 2007 4:15 PM

Barry Wheels wrote...

am I missing somethin i thought the libs were long dead? great as they were, docherty is now a f*ckin waster busy pissing his talent up and around his bedroom walls, and carl has been shown up for the middling bore he is.

Posted by: Barry Wheels  | July 13, 2007 5:19 PM

Gaz wrote...

Mr Wheels you obviously don't know what you're talking about - DPT are class and Babyshambles are even better. If they're so irrelevent then why are they featured in the papers almost on a daily basis - plus their gigs sell out in no time.

Posted by: Gaz  | July 13, 2007 6:27 PM

Barry Wheels wrote...

you've got me there gaz - they're featured in the papers everyday and their gigs sell out in no time - the mark of true greatness.

Posted by: Barry Wheels  | July 17, 2007 12:12 PM

Gaz wrote...

Tell you what Wheels, you've mastered the art of sarcasm there lad.
If you can't back up your own arguement then don't bother commenting at all.
Another great rock & roll band, while we're at it are the View.
They've the tunes, the drugs, the attitude, the birds. It's all goin off!

Posted by: Gaz  | July 17, 2007 4:47 PM

Mad Badger wrote...

Ahaaa Gaz!

You got us all!

F*ckin' hell. Nice one. And it's not even April Fools.

That's what was catching me out. The time of year.

But including the View has just made me suss ya.

Still tho, ya spun it out for a good long while!

Hahaha.

Hmmmm....

Badger

Posted by: Mad Badger  | July 19, 2007 7:21 PM

Gaz wrote...

What you on about Badger, lad?

Posted by: Gaz  | July 19, 2007 8:06 PM

john wrote...

wow is this guy a jalous bitter fucker slaggig off legends or what. i agree with a few things the view are shit, just like half the shitty indie bands that arent indie, and arent rockstars.. however liam gallagher is a genuine rockstar, donny tourette is also a genuine rockstar, pete doherty is also, but he's gone too far. coldplay are amazing.... the people ive mentioned are rockstars.... zepplin and the who are cool... only difference is it was in the past everything in the past seems better. like the beatles, when john lennon died he was better than when he was alive, same with kurt cobaine, same with elvis.... the modern rockstars today, 20 years donw the line our ppl will look back and remember like the who and beatles ect, and these ppl are Liam and noel gallagher, chris martin, pete doherty, and donny tourette will be huge!!!!! also the thing that makes older rockbands sound so great was the old recorders, now everythings digital and sounds shit.... i hate the view, i hate the twang, i hate the fratellis. all these bands will never be seen on the face of the earth again cause they are not rockstars...they are fucking tosspot wannabes... a rockstar people care about, people wnat to know what they do, ppl want either love them or hate them, either way they care in one way or another. thats how you tell they are a rockstar......

Posted by: john  | September 8, 2007 2:45 AM

john wrote...

i wouldnt called coldplays MUSIC rock n roll, i would call it indie... but i would defintely call chris martin a rockstar. you dont have to drink blood throw TV's out of hotel room windows to be a rockstar... its something your born with, that makes ppl attracted and drawn to you and your life.

Posted by: john  | September 8, 2007 2:50 AM

john wrote...

you look back now and think of the hippy days when ppl smoked weed and took lsd.. rockstars it looked liek they wasted themselfs like proper rockers.... but infact the weed wasnt even half as strong as today, and they passed on splif betwwen a million people.... did anyoen actually see how much the rockstars really drank?????? exactly no, everythign back then was more glamourous and elusive.. now everything is published on the internet.... every average person nowaydays behaves as if they were famous or rockstars..... dont be fooled though cause that doesnt make you one.... it just makes you a wannabe.... the people like liam gallagher, coldplay , towers are all great bands making music rather than smacking themselve up..these guys have sense thats all.... jimmy hendrix is a legend, and you didnt even mention him... face it the gallaghers, donny and pete, are far more intersting than any of the zeppelin members, or any of the who members..... i put it down to black and white or bad colour TV, which is always good,,, also viynl players which is also good..... and older recording technology which always adds a layer of rock n roll.... instead of todays shitty digital poppy sounding equiptment.... it just sounds all too perfect... rock n roll is better scrappy....

Posted by: john  | September 8, 2007 3:04 AM

john wrote...

i like what MAD BADGER wrote, kinda simular to what i mention, rockstars today are alot smarter and wiser. you dont have to kill yourself to be a rockstar... i can tell you now the average person... that goes clubbing, lets call these ppl common ppl, 99% of the world take more drugs drink more bear than the average celebrity... the celebs have got more money to do it.... but ppl today are trying so hard to live like celebrities, they dont realize it.... adn the stars are stars cause they arent the common ppl.... and they have brains..... that is why rockstars today have toned it down.... brains is a vital organ for creating music.... look at pete doherty he would watse any past or present junkie rockstar... had he lived in the 60s or 70s ppl would have called him a legend. but because its today and ppl are jealous bitter ppl, they call him a junkie wannabe.... his music suffers but hey,ppl dont seem to respect rockstars unless they kill themselfs, or seems that way from this article....

Posted by: john  | September 8, 2007 3:13 AM

john wrote...

les jst put it this way would you agree ozzy osbourne is one of the old time rockstar greats... drugs and biting heads of bats....well even ozzy obournehas said to pete doherty he is wasting his life away... a rockstar to me is an intersting charasmatic guy that writes decents songs.... they dont have to be great musicians leave to the jazz players...... rockstars are indeed born..... once again the gallaghers, pete doherty, chris martin and donny tourette are rockstars

Posted by: john  | September 8, 2007 3:39 AM

Jim wrote...

I don't know much about the Libertines or Babyshambles to be honest, so i'll hold off commenting on them, despite seeing pete docherty stagedive off the pyramid stage at glasto 2004(?). I don't think he got back on stage for quite a while.. which kind of buggered the song a bit. Anyway, another reason i'm posting is to mention that i found the View to be very samey and quite annoying.

And as for the debate about who's rock'n'roll is better; past or present? I see it as an irrelevence. The music industry of old has undergone an electronic revolution that threatens to destroy (and has destroyed) many a good band (RnR or otherwise). So while we're yakking away at each other with meaningless sentiments, someone, somewhere is downloading another death nail into good and original music.

So, hell, Jim Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin and all the others, they may as well just die again along with all the genuine musicians who are struggling to live off the pittance they can make on sales. Gawd bless the internet.

Posted by: Jim  | October 14, 2007 3:03 PM

Mel wrote...

Does it need to be 1970 again for it to be Rock? Does a rocker need die in a pool of his own vomit like Jimi or Janis to be considered more than a poser? Suck it up, open your ears, the music is great if you know where to look. Bouncing Souls, Social Distortion (just to name 2)

Posted by: Mel  | April 22, 2008 11:03 PM

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